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Glen Velez

COPYRIGHT CANADIAN BROADCASTING CORPORATION

MAN ALIVE

"DRUMS"

PART 4

INTERVIEW WITH GLEN VELEZ:

WHAT STRUCK ME IS THAT YOU INCORPORATE THIS WIDE VARIETY OF DRUMMING STYLES FROM AROUND THE WORLD. HOW DID YOU DEVELOP?

Well I ah was I have an uncle who plays drums so I grew up around musicians. And when I was about 8 I started to take lessons from my uncle on drum set, so he was teaching me about playing with sticks. So I did that and did a whole trip with that, you know, going to music school and studying mallets and miramba and playing orchestral music and all the different Western manifestations of percussion. Then I had always in kind of a corner of my consciousness wanted to delve into hand drumming and Indian music. Those two things always attracted me. So I started to study that around 1978 or so. One time, Ramnan Rathivan who is my ... teacher, seth Indian drum, he came to my house and was going to give me a lesson. And he saw a tambourine on the wall this orchestral tambourine that I had. And he said, oh we play that in south India, you know, we play the tambourine. So he brings that off the wall and plays it south Indian style. And I thought, good Lord, I never heard anything like that you know. The tambourine is a very simple instrument I didn't realize you could do all that stuff with the thing. So I was immediately drawn to that and attracted to the idea that here was a very simple drum and the potential seemed to be unlimited. And I'd just never seen that kind of facility. So I immediately started to study that. And then I knew Arabic drummers were into the tambourine so I started to go to concerts in the New York area and sought out different drummers that I would see playing. And when I saw somebody that looked real proficient on the Arabic style tambourine I'd say, can I study with you. And it just went like that, step by step. I kept finding out different ways of playing the tambourine, finding people who would teach me about it and study it. Then after the accumulation, it was kind of like an accumulation of stuff and it finally hit a critical mass and it said, you've got to do something with all this material that you have, you know. And so it just started naturally to bond together in ways, you know, that started a personal style that utilized all this different material that I had been learning the techniques and the sounds, the rhythmic organization and the way of looking at music. So that eventually evolved into doing solo performances where we would present this way of putting this material together that was just my own take on it, you know, the combination. And not presented as traditional anything, just traditional I say it's traditional 77th Street which is where I live in New York. So it's just a combination of all these things that struck me in a certain way. And by studying them and organizing the material, unconsciously come out with this personal view on all the things that I've studied.

WHEN YOU DO A WORKSHOP LIKE WE FILMED, WHAT'S THE INTENTION? WHAT ARE YOU TRYING TO DO?

I'm trying to show people about how I investigate time and how I go about exploring and expanding what my concept of space and time are. Those are like for me those are the easiest way to the easiest terms to use that strike a resonance inside me as far as all encompassing, you know, that idea of space and time. And using the body in different ways, using the voice and using the simple walking seems to be also a doorway or keys to letting people in on this so that they're not so intimidated by the fact that I've never played the drum before, you know. I'm holding this drum, what do I do? Well you do this, you do that. There are so many details. So by getting the voice invovled, it overrides a lot of that initial kind of anxiety about what this something so new, you know. And they're using materials, walkking and simple vocalizations that could come right out of what you do all day. You know, you're walking around and you're saying things.

THE WAY YOU DESCRIBE SPACE AND TIME, IT SOUNDS, WELL MYSTICAL.

Mhm. Well the drumming for me definitely has very consciousness altering qualities. And as I said, very expansive and the way also the overtone singing and doing this long, slow breathing, the way that those things blend together with a focus on time which is what drumming is, very focused on pulse, pulsation, steadiness, unsteadiness, all the issues of time. Combining that with a breathing technique and a sound experience that's very very much out of time, very much this what you could only I only could describe it well as going towards an eternal feeling. It has a very out of time feeling, a feeling of eternity. Combining that with this very time oriented material, which is the drumming, those things seem to amplify and enrich each other.

IS IT A .... EXPERIENCE?

Yeah I think so. For me it feels very it's one of those things that you experience something and it makes you ah respect being alive and respect the privilege of acting, you know. But also getting a feeling of thankfulness, you know, that you've been allowed to do this and that this is happening you know. It's like when something great happens to you, you say, oh I'm so glad ths happened to me. It's the same with the drumming. You know with that experience because but it's even better in a sense because it's ongoing, you know. It's almost systematic. It keeps on going and you keep getting more and more space and more and more knowledge about space.

DO YOU HAVE ANY TAKE ON WHY THAT TRADITION JUST DID NOT BECOME PART OF OUR WESTERN MUSICAL TRADITION?

The tradition of drumming?

AS A RELIGIOUS ACT, AS A SPIRITUAL ACT.

Oh yeah, I think it has to do with ah it has to do with repetition, what repetition does to the mind and which is what drumming there's a lot of repetition, there's a lot of repeated figures. That's one aspect of it and what that does is give you a different perspective on events that go by and it gives you another perspective on what ritual is, what type. I guess what it relates to is different types of rituals that different people are interested in, you know, and the different types have a different way of resonating different parts of the concsiousness. And for some reason, you know I couldn't presume to say why, the way that drumming activates the individual's consciousness along with the ideas about repetition seems to be something that people turned away from and went towards some other spiritual experience that had other qualities. And the drumming turns you in another direction. And for me it's very has a very spiritual component because these elements of the eternal, space and time, those things are exploration of I mean I consider those spiritual, those qualities. And focusing on those and concentrating on that kind of material gives a lot of insight into spiritual matters, you know, which are all connected with those things.

WHAT ABOUT THE WHOLE IDEA OF ..... BECAUSE IN A WORKSHOP LIKE THE PEOPLE, AT A CERTAIN POINT THEY'LL SYNC UP AND THEY BEGIN TO DOING SOMETHING IN SYNCHRONIZATION, IT SEEMS TO GIVE A JOYFUL FEELING.

Oh yeah. Well I think that synchronization is another way of experiencing time. And there's a beauty in precision; there's a beauty in knowing where something happens and knowing how long it is before something else happens. And the exploration of that, knowing about those spaces in between events, is another what entrainment, what I consider entrainment about is that knowledge. It's not even it doesn't necessarily be intellectual knowledge. It's really not that. It's a body knowledge and a consciousness knowledge.

I WOULD THINK IT'S PROBABLY IN A DIFFERENT CONCEPT. THAT'S WHERE I WAS TRYING TO LEAD TO. IT'S ALSO COMMUNITY.

Yeah. Oh yeah. It's definitely because you're it's like sharing knowledge. Everyone is by their presentation of where they think the pulse is where it is for them. They're sharing it with other people and then that interaction and a decision which happens somewhere in the organism to find a common place that you can go together with and that creates all this energy you know. Creates a lot of resonance and space so that the people can continue that exploration, continue that connection.

ONE OF THE THINGS THAT YOU REPRESENT THIS IS WHERE WE STARTED BUT ONE OF THE THINGS YOU DO REPRESENT IS THIS WHOLE IDEA OF THE COMING TOGETHER OF CULTURES THROUGH DRUMMING, THROUGH PERCUSSION, THROUGH WHAT'S GENERICALLY CALLED WORLD BEAT. IS THIS SOMETHING THAT'S MUSICALLY IMPORTANT DO YOU THINK? IS THIS SOMETHING THAT IS NEW AND PEOPLE SHOULD TAKE INTO ACCOUNT?

Yeah, I think that, you know, there's a time to appreciate differences and then there's a time to appreciate the samenesses, the qualities that everyone shares. And it seems like in this time where we are now it's really important to be able to appreciate the qualities that people share but from different cultures, from different races, and because of the media that's happening now the fact that people are travelling and that you get people from .... that you can hear. And that's not something that you could do 50 years ago. The idea of checking out what the culture was like, what the music was like meant a very arduous journey. So that's changed so that there's ways now of finding out about the sameness between people and about what people share in common and music is one of the big, and one of the most important ways that people can connect with whatever other people they experience. And so the idea that there's all this crossfertilization and crosspollination going on, I think serves a big purpose for that sense of finding out the commonness of people and that we all share very essential qualities.

YOU MENTIONED TOO THE OVERTONE OF SINGING ADDS SOMETHING TO YOUR WORK. IT'S THERE BUT IT ADDS THIS EXTRA DIMENSION OF SPACE. IT MAKES YOU CONSCIOUS OF SPACE IN A VERY DIFFERENT WAY.

Different way. Yeah. That's the way it feels for me you know. And as I say, doing these long, slow, deep breaths while you're doing something athletic and then having the different speeds of time go by it's like magnifying glasse, you know, about finding out what space and time feels like, what that experience is.

IT'S ALSO SOMETHING, I MEAN THIS IS NOT PART OF OUR WESTERN TRADITION BUT SOMETHING THAT I'M FAMILIAR WITH MANTRA REPETITION, DRUMMING. I MEAN DRUMMING IS MANTRA REPETITION. I THINK MANTA REPETITION MAY COMBINE ASPECTS OF RHYTHM AND ASPECTS OF OVERTONAL CHANTING OR SINGING. BUT THE SAME THING IS HAPPENING IN DRUMMING RIGHT NOW. I CAN SEE THAT CRYSTAL CLEAR.

Yeah I think so. I think there's a real connection.

(BACKGROUND TALK) ANYTHING YOU THINK WE HAVEN'T COVERED THAT WHAT'S THE HIGHEST YOU'VE EVER BEEN DRUMMING? IS THERE ANY STORY?

The highest?

VERY SPECIAL MOMENTS BECAUSE THERE ARE EVERYBODY HAS THEM.

I think one time that I remember clearly and it stayed in my mind is being on Lake Baikal..... Went out there with Paul Winter and we did a two week tour of the shore of the lake and one night I was we had these long this was in the summer and even in the summer it was kind of chilly. But I would go out on the deck of this boat and it would take us four hours to get anywhere, this lake is so big. So I'd go out there and play and practice and be looking at the water and stuff. The night before in practice, one of the guys one of the Russians was telling about the local legends about the lake and there was the local kind of deity or spirit yeah the spirit that lived in the lake that was the guardian of the lake and stuff. So I was out there playing and I just felt the next day a connection to that kind of energy, the energy of something cyclic that goes very very slow. A consciousness that is different from the way our minds are moving and the way are synapses are firing as ours are to an ant, you know, that difference. And I felt that connection and that was very very ah opening up. I felt very open to this whole other perception of the way time is moving. And that is one time that the drumming really it felt like because of the drumming I was doing it was allowing me to get a glimpse into that something that was so different from my normal experience about the way I was feeling.

... SUBJECT, HAVE YOU HAD ANY CONTACT WITH PEOPLE .... WHO DO SPIRIT WORLD ....

Not much no. I've just, you know, been hearing a lot about it because it's obviously something that people are interested in in the west and there's a lot of physical connections in the sense of this drum is very is used often in shamanistic traditions, this type of drum, this frame drum. And in Central Asia the overtone singing, you know, those things coexist very closely. So there's different elements of what I'm doing that seem to you know be in the same realm but I haven't specifically gone or seen or been around, closely watch the shaman work.

AS SOON AS I MET YOU I HAVE TO CONFESS I DIDN'T KNOW YOUR MUSIC BEFORE BUT AS SOON AS I MET YOU I FELT THIS STRONG SIBERIAN SHAMANISTIC THING HAPPENING.

It's funny. We went on one of the other trips we went to Erkutz and we went we had just visited briefly Lake Baikal and there were Buryat people that we went and played for. It was a factory, a fish factory. They were processing fish. And somehow they said, well here's some Americans, you know, this was about 6 years ago, that are visiting. Everyone come outside and check out these Americans. So Paul Winter had his soprano sax, I had my drum and we just did an impromptu performance for these people that were I mean they working, they were really seriously working with their hands. And there was about 30 or 40 of these Siberians hanging outside this place and we would play for them. I felt very strongly when I was doing this drumming with the belran and doing the overtone singing that it was (clears throat) it was very ah it was ordinary, in the most positive sense of the word, there, you know. Because when I do it here it's very extraordinary because it's so unusual. It has that almost a circus feeling to it, you know. And it's circus in the sense of here's something you never see, you know. And to go some place where you watch the listener's eyes and their bodies and their faces and realize, yeah, we know that, you know. There's nothing new to that and that was great. That was really neat to feel that, you know, because I was so used to the other thing.

... ALMOST LIKE A FEELING OF BEING AT HOME. I'VE HAD SIMILAR KINDS OF FEELINGS IN DIFFERENT KINDS OF PLACES. INCIDENTALLY, I CALLED PAUL WINTER TO DO THE MUSIC FOR THAT DALAI LAMA THING AND HE AND THE PRODUCER COULDN'T

Couldn't get together on it.

COULDN'T GET TOGETHER. BUT

Next time.

YEAH. NEXT TIME. OKAY THAT WAS GREAT. IS THERE ANYTHING YOU THINK WE SHOULD TOUCH ON THAT I HAVEN'T?

No. I think, you know, a lot of interesting things.

OKAY TERRIFIC.

INTERVIEW GLEN VELEZ:

HOW MUCH PEOPLE GET INTO IT AND HOW MUCH THEY LOVE IT. THERE WAS JUST AN ENORMOUS AMOUNT OF JOY IN THAT GROUP. PEOPLE WERE SO HAPPY. IT WAS OBVIOUS THEY'D NEVER DONE THIS BEFORE EVEN THOUGH THEY'RE MUSICAL THERAPISTS AND IT WAS SOMETHING PHENOMENAL.

Yeah there's such a release of emotion when you start to do systematically rhythmic things, you know. We're doing these all the time and we're speaking rhythmically, we're walking rhythmically. We're doing this all the time but then when you focus on it and do it so that people realize that they are rhythmic creatures, you know, and that everyone is that. To be alive and to speak and to walk and to move around in space is very rhythmic. So everyone is that. And I think just there's a selfimage especially in Western culture maybe that, you know, Africans are more rhythmic or whatever, but I don't think that's true. I think that Americans have just as much rhythmic potential as anyone else. And that when you start to focus on their own abilities then people get a real charge out of it.

AND THAT LEADS TO THE JOY. OKAY. GOOD. THAT'S ALL I WANTED.

THAT LEADS ME TO THIS AND THAT IT'S VERY OBVIOUS WATCHING YOU DO THIS THAT YOU LOVE DOING THIS, THAT YOU GET AN ENORMOUS AMOUNT OUT OF IT.

Oh yeah. It's another way for me to learn about what I'm doing, you know. Because it would be very easy for me to say, oh I don't want to deal with such elemental, simple material because I'm doing these complex polyrhythmic things you know. And ah but then I started out with that somewhere in my subconscious, that attitude. But as I've done it more and more and as I've let myself be more and more absorbed, in seeing what it takes to commuicate this kind of material to people then I'm discovering more and more about what the most basic elements are and what are the most important elements of what I'm doing. That's very powerful selfdiscovery for me, you know.

CAN YOU BE MORE SPECIFIC THERE.

Well how to explain, how to explain not only verbally but also in experience way what kind of material do you give someone that gives them the experience that will lead them towards what I'm doing, see. And to find that kind of material and to find ways of showing, like we said earlier, how to synchronize and what it feels like to synchronize your voice with your feet, your walking and then have a drum going on and having those things synchronize what that feels like. And to have that be possible in a way that's not so intimidating and not so anxiety provoking that they say, I'm not going to do that, you know. So to give an entry way to that is a very powerful selfdiscovery thing for me, is to find the material that will do that.

OKAY NOW I'VE GOT IT.

INTERVIEW WITH REMO BELLI:

WHY DON'T YOU BEGIN BY TELLING ME HOW YOU BECAME INTERESTED IN DRUMMING? HOW DID IT ALL START?

Okay. Ah how it all started. Subsequently in the years that I've been in the profession have come up with a theory, a hypothesis, is that there is 1% of any given population is a compulsive drummer and another 1% of any given population is an impulsive drummer. I'm the 1% that's a compulsive drummer. So we'll begin at the beginning when I'm 12 years old and I realize that I'm a compulsive drummer and by the 16th year I'm already a professional and by the 17th year, I leave high school. I've already got my first gig before I go into the Navy. I serve my time into the Navy and I'm off from there. So I'm one of the world's 1% that's a compulsive drummer.

WHAT MAKES A COMPULSIVE DRUMMER? HOW DO YOU KNOW THAT YOU'RE A COMPULSIVE DRUMMER?

Well, in the in the business that I'm in now, I've had the opportunity to speak to so many people the world over educators, professional people, people who keep track of things for systems, for schools, for areas and you know you're a compulsive drummer principally because that's where you keep focusing your attention. You're always there. You have an awareness of rhythm, you have an awareness of time that's going on and this is what keeps drawing you to wanting to do something like this.

I HEARD A GREAT STORY OF A MOTHER WHO WAS VERY CONCERNED THAT HER SON WAS POUNDING ON THINGS. .... WAS REMARKING ON THAT ONCE. ..... WHO LOOKED AT THE KID POUNDING ON THINGS AND SAID, AH HE'S JUST ANOTHER MUSICIAN ...

I did it constantly at home at the dinner table with knives, forks, etc. etc. But I was fortunate to have a very tolerant ah family who ah encouraged me .....

BUT YOUR SEPARATION ... CONCERN THAT PEOPLE DON'T THINK THAT THEY DON'T HAVE SENSES OF RHYTHM BECAUSE ONE OF THE COMPLAINTS I HEAR FROM MY TELEVISION EXECUTIVES ABOUT, OH YOU'RE DOING SOMETHINGABOUT DRUMMING. HOW ARE YOU GOING TO MAKE IT INTERESTING TO THE MASS AUDIENCE OUT THERE BECAUSE MOST WHITE FOLKS DON'T HAVE A SENSE OF RHYTHM. HOW DO YOU RESPOND TO THAT?

Well again going back into the the time that I've spent in the world, I find that a greater majority of people do have rhythm. I've found very few people who don't have it and it's that in our present social makeups there are very few people ever experience the opportunity of creating rhythm. They generally are involved in being influenced by rhythm. So the thing that is making this new social thing happen, and I see it all over the world because I deal with 120 countries, okay, I am seeing people now for the first time in their lives producing rhythm. Now this becomes the difference to where the socalled executives are now discovering that it's not that farfetched, that they were concerned with trying to be too good. And now that they know that they know that they don't have to be too good or that great that they can get down on it, it's very interesting to see the type of mentality who at first never wanted to let go is now playing.

DRUMMING WORKSHOPS ARE NOW HAPPENING IN CORPORATIONS.

Yeah.

THEY'RE HAPPENING IN SCHOOLS BUT THEY'RE HAPPENING IN CORPORATIONS.

Yes.

THAT'S A PHENOMENAL THING. WHAT DO YOU ATTRIBUTE THE RESURGENCE OR MAYBE IT'S THE INTRODUCTION OF THE DRUM.

This in my opinion it depends on where you want to start in history.

LET'S (OVERLAP) ...

When that was it that was what it was and that's the means that you had to do. Now I'm not sure what would qualify as being a resurgence because you'd have to go back too far in history. This now to me becomes a very interesting social movement. It's not an industry created commercial act that's going on here. We didn't sit around deciding that perhaps this is what we would do to start. Wouldn't it be fun making a lot of money doing this? This is not kinky. And that's the only reason that I'm in it and I have the enthusiasm for it because it's not kinky. This now I find to be at the level of the persons that are engaging in it, there's a lot of professional people and it's going to work. It's going to

YEAH BUT WHY DO YOU FIGURE IT'S HAPPENING?

Well I think there's a need because if we look around us to try to determine what has worked and what has not worked, we find that our little old world is still in the same tumult. You know it's just a constant tumult and so the game that's being played now is how do we live within this tumult and survive and have a reasonableness of sanity to keep our equilibrium? I find that what's going on now and why this group is so interesting to me because this music therapy relationship is going to demonstrate that there is a definite relationship between wellness and music and wellness and rhythm and so on and so forth. So people are out there searching for what else to do other than high fibre, low cholesterol, low sodium, less sugar, jogging, walking and one of the now the logical pastimes. It's affordable, you can do individually, you can do it in groups and it really has to do with wellness. It really has to do with communicating. I think that's an interesting thing that society itself is making up their mind.

COMMUNICATING IS A KEY WORD.

Yeah.

BASED UPON THE WORD COMMUNION WHICH IS A MUCH DEEPER WORD.

You spoke yesterday of spiritual and ah ah I have found some groups that are intensely spiritual with their approach to the drum as well as I have found others that are not at all, that they're in it for the feelings that they get from it and ah I have participated in drum circles in which individuals at the conclusion of the circle express themselves on a topic that was given. And some people were very emotional about what they were and they could do it by participating in training, as it were, first and then being able to say what they had to say. And this is coming from hard core professional Remo Belli. This is not I earned good money playing drums so ah

TELL ME A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THE BIG DRUM CIRCLE. THE LEGENDARY BECOMING LEGENDARY IT'S ..... IN THE BAY AREA .... THE LEGENDARY DRUM CIRCLE IN MARIN COUNTY.

Well it was an idea conceived by Mickey Hart and his wife Carol Orbach. And ah the whole idea was a fund raiser for Rhythm for Life. And it got put together by very professional people. You can't get more any more professional than Mickey Hart and Carol and his organization in making sure of this, making sure of that and organizing it and putting it together. There were at least 1700 people there. And the orderliness and the conduct and everything that happened was just magnificent. We had security. We had everything that you could imagine. Nothing nothing was needed. There was no alcoholism. You smelled no cannabis. You saw people walk in there with the most unimaginable equipment. They had come back with those plastic water bottles they'd come in with that. People who had put together some of the funniest (laughter) drums you could ever see showed up. And at the end of it, like I was sharing with you before, I asked the police, I said how did we do? They said, you can come back any time. And people were still playing an hour and a half after it was over and we were leaving and they were still doing it. (overlap)

HOW ...

Well the actual drum circle itself probably took a couple of hours. But altogether from the beginning where there were little enclaves that were already starting to play to what we did and towards the end it was probably 4 hours or something like that. Each paid $15 and they said it was probably the best $15 that they had spent for an evening's entertainment. Know what I mean?

OH YEAH.

It was just nice clean nice clean fun. And everything imaginable was there. You saw the elderly and when you're looking at an elderly person who's never been involved before having a ball. You had the kids. You had obviously every strata of society. You had professional people as well as nonprofessional people. You had the hippie, you had everything. But at that time, it was a kind of an interesting level that everybody reached . So it was the same.

SPEAKING OF LEVELS, YOU STARTED OFF AND WERE THE HEART BEAT FOR THE DRUM CIRCLE LAST NIGHT. I WAS WATCHING YOU. YOU HAD A GREAT TIME.

(LAUGHTER)

That reminds me of my jazz days where the rhythm section is constantly playing and you have all the other guys that are taking 2, 3 courses and then they stop and go but meanwhile the (laughter) rhythm section keeps on playing. And I kept looking at Glen and I was saying, wait a minute now, how long does this have to go on, you know. But I was having a lot of fun. But doing what had to be done took an awful lot of energy, you know, to make sure that what we call the pocket every time I felt the pocket was being reached to where there was a synchronization and everybody was having a ball, it was effortless, and then every now and then I'd have to do a little more directing, you know, to bring us back into focus. So that's kind of interesting.

HOW DO YOU DO THAT? YOU JUST GO AROUND TO SMALL LITTLE GROUPS AND TRY AND GET THEM TO SYNCH UP WITH YOU?

My whole life is keeping time. That's what I did. That's what I did for a living. It didn't matter whether it was a Las Vegas show or whatever. So I'm conscious of time and I'm conscious of rhythm and I'm conscious of synch to when it's happening. When it's happening and it's effortless and you do that whether it's a waltz, no matter what it is. No matter what form of music, once you hit that groove, that pocket, it works. And that we reached it last night several times. I was watching you too. You were having a good time. (LAUGHTER)

I KNOW. I WAS HAVING A GREAT TIME.

It wasn't such a bad evening.

....... GLEN'S AMAZING.

Yes, he's a wonderful person. And knowing what he knows and how he knows and never having travelled in order to learn it, that the greater majority of the world's rhythms he picked up in New York City is something to talk about.

IT ALSO SAYS SOMETHING ABOUT NEW YORK CITY. (LAUGHTER)

And he applies himself very very well. He's a charming young man.

YOU'VE BEEN VERY SUPPORTIVE OF AND VERY INSTRUMENTAL PROBABLY IN THE CAREERS OF A LOT OF MAJOR MUSICAL TALENT.

Mhm. Mhm. Yeah, it's been a pleasure. I wouldn't exchange my life for anybody else's ever. I've done since I shared with you, from 12 years old, I'm 66 now, at 12 years old I never had a doubt in my life as to what I was going to do and why. Never. I never had a feeling that what am I going to do tomorrow. Never. It's true.

I BELIEVE YOU.

Yes, yes.

I BELIEVE YOU.

Yes I've had such a ball with it. I've had such a wonderful time with it that I have nothing more than just kind of grateful feelings that ah things happened to me along the way I guess in time. I live with the thing that nothing in the world can stop an idea whose time has come. I guess that's the only thing that I can say. I evolved from student to player to player to professional business person to manufacturing and now to whatever. It was just like it was supposed to happen the flow of things and ah

IN SYNCH?

I guess so. I guess so. I'm ah I'm privileged and ah it's nice.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

Okay. Thank you.

THAT WAS REALLY A TREAT.

Okay thank you so much.